Curse

Andisa Kalorn · Jun 29, 2007, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

Modern Psychology disagrees. Certain traits and features are genetically manifested and cannot be altered by bad or good parenting. The "you're a product of your social environment" bullshit is old. People from families with a high level of social intelligence and parental caring (mind my English) can still suffer from "Neuroticism" and thus be very likely to express their instability through violence or hatred, drug abuse etc...

Modern psyschology? You mean psychology from the 60s? Or pop psychology? Ever heard of Walter Mischel or person-situation interaction? Not even trait pscyhologists believe in pure trait theory anymore. That's old.

If you knew anything about modern psychology, you'd have pointed out that many theorists believe that parents are not the most influential factor in a child's development. They believe peers are more important. But no one really believes that traits determine all behaviour anymore.

And neuroticism causing rudeness? Do you know anything about psychology? I score very high on measures of neuroticism, and I'm not as rude as the people in local chat. If you're using the five-factor model of personality traits, then the trait you're looking for is agreeableness. People who score low on agreeableness can be intentionally rude.

Please don't pretend you're an expert when you don't know what you're talking about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

If they were blacks insulting whites and thus you (if you're white) I am sure you'd be calm and not call it racism because you most likely suffer from guilt complexes.

... so all racism against minorities is okay if you don't get offended by racism against the majority? That attitude itself is racist. And did I ever say I was okay with racism against whites? I don't believe I did. I find it just as disgusting as any other racism and I think that it's wrong to tolerate it. But thanks for just assuming I had a character flaw and criticizing me based on what you made up.

And I most likely suffer from guilt complexes?? Yeah, given that I'm in a country that wasn't involved in the slave trade. And that my ancestors, who were from other countries, also were never involved in the slave trade. I feel sooooo guilty for what other people in other places in other times did! And even if my country or ancestors were involved... guess what? They're not me and I don't bear any responsibility for anything they did! Crazy, I know.

So I say that an incident of racism against blacks offended me, and you say this is because I'm a hypocrite and have guilt complexes. Even if this were true, the racism is STILL wrong. That you criticize me for being offended by racism... I don't know what to say about that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

A HEAVY percentage of GW's population is made up by younger people < 18 years but the other immature part is made up by retarded adults who misbehave in order to counterbalance whatever they lack in life.

But according to your theory, social environment doesn't influence people's behaviour at all. It would follow that adults who act rude do so because they're rude people, no matter what they have or don't have. At least try to be consistent...

Roshi_ikkyu · Jun 29, 2007, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

its not only genetics, nor only nurture, its both. The debate has been long going on, but from genetic experiments in model systems (which has very little to do with psychology) we can easily conclude that genetics form a basis upon which behavior is based and can be adjusted by associative learning. Behavior that consistently results in negative feedback (being reprimanded) will be stopped in the end. why is there so much bad behavior still, simply because we do not act early and fast enough for the targets to correlate both. And conscience is usually not as strong compared the genetic learning systems. There is just a small percentage of cases which probably can't control their behavior, the big majority was probably not taught well.

A++, You sir are correct

Also genetic factors appear to be influenced by environmental, predisposition to a genetic trait does not ensure activation sololy. (Psychological perpective)

art of war · Jun 29, 2007, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by FalconDance

Ps: Under the US Constitution, only adults have any constitutional rights. Children do not. Strange little factoid.

wow that made me laugh deep down inside and hopefully this is sarcasim. They still do have rights in the constitution but certian right adults have they dont have untill their an adult. But they still have due process of law(Juvenile court) and right to have an attorney/parents attorney etc.

but anyway I think anet needs to take these immature peoples racial slurs etc more serouisly. Also, sometimes kids get this from ignorance of thier parents make them think its okay to say these things like racial slurs and other offending things in the video game and in real life. Finally thier peers/parents need say something about and correcting them with out going down to there level.

FalconDance · Jun 29, 2007, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by assassin_of_ni

yeah no kidding...yet why is it that children (being age 17 and under) can be punished for infringing on said rights. hypocricy much?

To some degree, assuredly.

However, as I said before, there is a certain standard for polite society. Constitution or not (since we're talking a global GW community).

My grandma, wise woman that she was, always said that you should start children out as you mean them to end up. In other words, if you expect them to be polite, considerate, non-self-centered, etc., then you should raise them with the morals and lessons to teach them to be such.

Society (at least in the US) for the most part is failing miserably and has been for several years now. Blame it on media baby-sitting (which goes back to parents), governmental nannying, economics, whatever. Fact of the matter is, our younger generations (and I'm talking primarily the early 20s and under) are spoilt brats who have been allowed to believe they are owed anything they want without earning it and who increasingly denigrate any sort of polite society that may have been. :shrug: Not all, but certainly a majority.

Quote:

society's facked, live with it.

.....certainly, but with that prevailing attitude, it will remain "facked" and where will that get us?

~Falcon

DirtyDirty · Jun 29, 2007, 04:35 PM // 16:35

I don't let other people's immaturity bother me cause I'm having too much fun playing the game.

TheRaven · Jun 29, 2007, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Ok, i hate the immaturity and crap that exists in GW, but there is a difference between immature and vulgar.

"Hey, wanna see my super cool new dagger, huh! wanna see wanna see wanna see???? hey look at me!!!!!! I'm dancing with my new daggers!!!!!!!!!!" is immature. It's expected from a 10 year old.

"Hey, your mom %^&#%$^#@ my ^&$% last night " is vulgar and shouldn't be tolerated in a game that's rated T for Teen. But, I can't blame A-net. They have put filters in place and if an A-net employee spots such chat they usually warn or ban the offender. The problem is that this is a free game with no monthly fees so 24/7 moderators are not going to ever be available. Instead I blame the moronic parents that let their precious little darlings get away with this behavior both online and in real life. These kids were raised to believe that this is acceptable and will get them what they want and anyone who objects is simply a prude.

However, I must say this. Guild Wars is a lot better than some other games I've played. I recently left a different online game because of this issue. This particular game was rated E for Everyone and was primarily marketed to the 8-13 year old age bracket, however it was played and enjoyed by all ages. The online chat there was horrible. There was no chat filter and almost every sentence included the 'F' word and the main chat consisted of everyone attacking everyone else. It was impossible to hold a decent conversation in any of the open chat rooms.

One player in particular was especially vicious. Let's call him Bob. Bob is an adult (Yes, I'm about 95% sure of this), but Bob had a very nasty temper and a foul mouth. Bob was a very good player (although many suspect him of hacking and cheating) who won about 80% of the games he played. If you played a game with Bob you could expect a long string of nasty insults if you won followed by about 10-20 PMs full of more insults. If you lost, you could expect long strings of harassment telling you to go kill yourself because your playing skills were obviously not up to the minimum standards of the human race and you didn't deserve to live.

I know most would say that the obvious solution was just not to play with Bob, but this wasn't possible in the game format. Most games and tournaments matched you with a random opponent in the game. Much like most PvP matches in GW.

A friend of mine recently found out that his mom had Breast cancer and was diagnosed with about 6 months to a year to live. He played the game a lot and for him it was a way to escape some of his real world problems, like most of us. He had the misfortune of playing Bob and he beat Bob in a match. Bob sent him an e-mail telling him to "Go shoot his ^&#$ mother for giving birth to something as moronic and stupid as him and then to go shoot himself." My friend e-mailed back that his mom had Breast Cancer and please LAY OFF!! Bob replied that he was very glad his mom was sick and hoped she died painfully. Bob continued to e-mail my friend each day with increasingly vulgar e-mails concerning his mom.

My friend kept the e-mails and sent them to the game support staff as did most of his friends on the forums. Nothing was ever done. He never even got a reply from support.

Unfortunately, Bob wasn't the only player like this in the game. There were many more just like him, however he was one of the worst. This was a really fun game to play but it has very few players except the idiots today. Would I allow my 9 year old to play? NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER!!!!

So, in closing (if someone is still reading this. Sorry, I know I tend to ramble) I can't really gripe about Arena Net. I've seen much much worse in online games. A-Net does have a chat filter. It will never be perfect. There are ways around every filter. A-Net support does read e-mails concerning ingame violations and they do take action if it's appropiate.

FalconDance · Jun 29, 2007, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by art of war

wow that made me laugh deep down inside and hopefully this is sarcasim. They still do have rights in the constitution but certian right adults have they dont have untill their an adult. But they still have due process of law(Juvenile court) and right to have an attorney/parents attorney etc.

Actually, no sarcasm. Minors have NO constitutionally granted rights. The "rights" you mention are granted by individual states:

Quote:

Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

There is no constitutional provision specifically for juvenile courts. From Cornell Law School website specifically: "Juvenile law is mainly governed by state law and most states have enacted a juvenile code. ... State statutes creating juvenile courts and providing methods for dealing with juvenile delinquencey have generally been upheld by courts as an acceptable extension of state police power to ensure the safety and welfare of children. The doctrine of parens patriae authorizes the state to legislate for the protection, care, custody, and maintenance of children within its jurisdiction.

The federal role in the field has largely been that of funder and standard setter. Congress passed the Juvenile Delinquency Prevention and Control Act in 1968."

A little education goes a long way.

Now, how do we educate these nastiness offenders in GW that their behavior is offensive and unacceptable?

~Falcon

Rocky Raccoon · Jun 29, 2007, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by pamelf

The web is a huge community. People of all ages act stupidly precisely because they can. It's not about being polite, or kind, or considerate. On the internet you play a character, especially since we're in an MMORPG. People can say things and do things they would never think about saying and doing in a social situation, and personally I'd prefer they say the ridiculous things they're saying on the net rather than on the streets.

I can go out and kill someone right, because I can. Does that make it right? If people become desensitized to that type of talk, what is to say it won't carry over to real life.

It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.

Stellar SixTen · Jun 29, 2007, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

There is only really 2 ways they could deal with immature language...

1) Add an age restriction for the game (which would alienate a large portion of the community)
2) Put an parent filture into the software, which allowes parents to block foul lanauge from being seen or sent. Something which only they can turn on or off using a password.

Sorry to quote part of your post, and take it out of context. I do agree with the rest of your post.

For a while I thought #2 above was the answer to this problem. But after thinking about it, I realized that EULA's, age ratings on packages, parental controls on games, TV, even the volume on an iPod, leads to the "absentee parenting" that is really part of the problem.

Parental controls allow a parent to think "I don't need to worry about what my kid is watching on TV or seeing online because I set up that nifty control thingie," rather than actually paying attention to their kid and interacting with them. In truth, I think any parent of at least average intelligence knows deep down that their kid can find out how to get around these things anyway, they are just there to mitigate guilt for bad parenting.

Seissor · Jun 29, 2007, 05:11 PM // 17:11

immature kdis hurt any game digital or in real life. ignore them. dont argue or call them names, pretend they dont exist. drives them bonkers!

and when you log off after having ignored them. :-) report them

Painbringer · Jun 29, 2007, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Just like when the WTS spam gets too much I just shut off the chat. I am a parent and it does worry me a little seeing what is being said. In fact one time I read people talking about sex mixed with address on were to go etc… Do people not understand that sexual predators play video games to.

Kids are kids and they will find other means to chat like this especially in today’s techno world. GW is an easy not often thought of means of communicating.

Mjhammerman · Jun 29, 2007, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Fact of life. A asshole will always remain one. U cant say in ur work life u dont know assholes. Well, trust me, he was always like that. I dont feel im a child but i am in the younger section of players. At 17 i can also say there are people who ruin a game, but these same people are what make real life just as annoying. Welcome to reality, hope all sees you well. If you get lost in your endovours remember, a ass will be a ass, but there are pleanty of people who dont have a ego so big it emmits a gravatational force.

And yes, i do realize that the word asshole my be in fact immature but it decribes these people to a tee.

Yichi · Jun 29, 2007, 05:56 PM // 17:56

The title of this thread should be changed to "Immature Players" as there are many that play this game that are older than the "kiddy age" and are still complete asshats.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Jun 29, 2007, 05:58 PM // 17:58

It is an online game. You are going to run into retards. Deal with it.

assassin_of_ni · Jun 29, 2007, 06:09 PM // 18:09

imo when it comes to the kids in this day and age...yes it is quite true that quite a few (not all) have that gimme gimme attitude and are basically never expected to give anything in return. they believe the are owed everything just...cause, and this is seeing this behavior in my won family (cousins and whatnot.....no kids in my immediate family anymore) and from what ive seen there are a few big factors for this behavior.

1:society
everyone is telling all the newer parents how to raise their kids but now everyone has this....complexity about their kids that they are perfect lil angels who could do no wrong and im sure when they do something wrong its just an accident. case in which my cousin stole a pocket knife from me (note he is 8 friggin years old...stealing a knife) he pulls it out to show his friends saying its his blah blah...i ask where he got it from. he says i dont know i brought it from my mothers house. i said hunh...funny cause my knife just up and went missing...afterwards i show him and his father the case that goes with it. he says ok and gives it back...ok everything is fine at this point...he knows he stole it and he got caught end of story. but his father in a pinacle of his own self righteousness holier than thou attitude says "well his friends probably just thought it was his and put it in his backpack" to which i reply... the only things his friends do are take his things and leave them everywhere...let alone put em back. a lil note about his friends...they too are raised on the perfect lil angel mind set...and given everything they want and then some and really dont care who they piss off to get it. thats one way i believe kids in this day and age are just lil heathens.

2:government city/state rules and regulations, etc etc
the government has become more and more involved in how everyone raises their kids since the baby boomer age (1945-1965) what with the car seats until your like 9 years old or whatever and cushioning everything cause god forbid a kid ever feels a slight bit of pain. back when i was a youngin i remember going riding in my fathers friend's truck in the middle of the desert...laying on a ledge in the window behind the back seat...no restraints whatsoever and being perfectly fine. in this day and age you can have a kid triple restrained if they weigh less than 80 pounds with them bouncing around the car like a ping pong ball. basically....we're being forced to baby our kids and take those extra lil precautions...and it doesnt take long for them to think that we now hafta hold their hands for everything.

3:the melting pot
now...once these kids come of elementary and middle school age...they are now interacting with hundreds of other kids raised on this philosephy....even if your kid wasnt. part of it rubs off...whether its wanted to or not. one day you may actually have a good kid that does what hes told and isnt a lil hellion about it either...the next day you start hearing the gimme gimme stuff and its all over.

so basically to actually raise a kid in this time era to be actually good....know what the word "no" stands for and does what theyre told and isnt a complete rude lil punk it takes some very good parenting and probably a little bit of luck too. now note...i did say most but not all kids and a lot of this even applies to adults as well so no one is really immune to it. just my $.02

Maiyn · Jun 29, 2007, 06:19 PM // 18:19

As a 25 year old girl playing this game, I definitely think immaturity is a huge problem. I tend to play the game with local chat turned off, and often my alliance of the moment is really idiotic as well. Usually a bunch of young boys and men, and yeah girls too who are really just too stupid for their own good. These are the types of things you see online, people act out because there is alack of authority or whatever to react to their stupid behavior.

I suggest you find an 18+ guild or a small close knit one. It's even more annoying if you PVP because going on ventrilo and what not with these immature little brats is incredibly frustrating. :O It is a million times worse than dealing with idiots in text format lol.

All that being said, you're just going to run into that in online gaming, and it's just best to keep a friends list and play with people who you can tolerate.

Rocky Raccoon · Jun 29, 2007, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

The title of this thread should be changed to "Immature Players" as there are many that play this game that are older than the "kiddy age" and are still complete asshats.

I edited my original post saying I should have done just that.

around · Jun 29, 2007, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

As a 25 year old girl playing this game

tits or gtfo imo.

No, seriously, who's more immature: the people who use profanities a lot, or the people who whine copiously on the forums about it?

Rocky Raccoon · Jun 29, 2007, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by spawnofebil

tits or gtfo imo.

No, seriously, who's more immature: the people who use profanities a lot, or the people who whine copiously on the forums about it?

You should be kicked for a comment like that to a serious discussion.

Darko_UK · Jun 29, 2007, 06:42 PM // 18:42

I'm pretty damn sure that being abusive is againt the EULA, soooo flame bait the kids then screenshot and report the kids to your hearts content